For the Love of Dogs: An Artist Interview with Joanne Rowland

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This interview with Joanne Rowland took place 17th September 2021. Joanne is warm, unpretentious and enthusiastic. There’s plenty to read, so I’m going to cut to the chase. 

Damian Huntley: Where did it come from? Where did your interest in art come from?

Joanne Rowland: Well actually I started, probably when your mam was teaching me at school. I remember, it was definitely the Leadgate school, and we had been drawing something, but all I remember was the sky and the clouds … I’d been clarting about, doing my sky, doing my clouds, and your mam … “Do you mind if I do something like that?” She put a tiny bit of white paint on the side of her hand, and she went straight across my painting, and my little twelve year old mind was blown. Oh my god, you can do stuff like that … you can do what you want, can’t you? Then from being thirteen, when you take your options, It was kind of pushed back down again; my dad didn’t want the focus on art, but more mainstream subjects… you know … “You’ll get nowhere in life,” as many parents did. I’m not fussed that my dad did that; it’s just normal. I didn’t really draw again until I was into my forties. Blame the Xbox. Colin told me he wanted an Xbox One for Christmas and at the time, I was like “Are you kidding? People have been selling their kidneys for these for six months, just to get on a waiting list for them, and this is September and you’re telling me you want one for Christmas?” Managed to get him one and I said, “You’re going to have to buy me a toy for Christmas, ‘cos I’m not sitting looking at the back of your head doing this all day.” He bought me an art set, and there you go. 

DH. So that was really the start, in your forties? Did you do any formal training?

JR. No, I haven’t even got a GCSE. I joined an art group after the xbox-cum-art set experience, but you know, when you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s an odd thing, because you don’t understand about it looking pretty bloody ugly most of the time, to be honest with you, best part of the way through.  And then all of a sudden it’s like a little dab, or something and “there it is … that’s what I was after.” So you’re sitting there in an art club thinking, “I don’t know what the rules are.” I was a bit of a rules girl as well. It’s almost like a bit of a panic thing, where “I can’t be doing it right … it should’t be taking me ten hours to do this, or twenty hours to do that. Well … a few years later, of course now I KNOW that absolutely it does! That’s just the way it is; it’s a process, but you’re like “don’t look at it; it’s rubbish” because you just don’t know. Then I joined a class with Fiona Carvell, she was doing some classes at Shotley Bridge; I don’t know if she’s restarted those, because of lockdown, or anything, and that sort of introduced me to pastel. Fiona’s got a beautiful, loose style; whereas, I try to draw a blade of grass from like three miles away. I just thought … “You know what, if it’s detail stuff that you like to do, then just go do it. Stop worrying about being dead loose. Stop worrying about being anything else; just do what you want.”

DH. Do you work from photographic sources primarily?

JR. I do, and I think that’s a lot to do with the… I want to say a little bit of control freakery (sic) that goes on, like, well “Where is that hair? Not that clump of hairs … that hair.” I might not draw it like that, but I need to know where it is. There’s such a love of animals and wildlife, I like it to look like that animal, not just an animal. It’s got a lot to do with the way a fur map runs on an animal’s face, or its body and its muscular skeletal make up, and things like that. Every Labrador is slightly different, because of its fur map, and if I’m drawing it for a person, it needs to look like THEIR Labrador, not just A Labrador. I like a really clear photo, so I can see that detail.

DH. You’re working on commission a lot of the time?

JR. Yeah and that just kind of happened by accident.  I try to save some of my time to do some of the animals that I want to draw, that I love, but to be honest with you, drawing people’s pets, especially when you get to hand it over to them in person, it’s just like … it’s one of the nicest … Can you remember the Ready Brek  … I’m assuming some of us are of a similar age … the Ready Brek glow on the advert when we were kids? It feels just like that; it feels like … “I did that for them!” It’s just lovely, so it doesn’t matter what happens; I always try and make sure I’ve got time to do that for people, because it’s one of the most wonderful things when you see their face.

DH. Did you start with the intent of doing animals initially, or did you have something else in mind?

JR. When Colin bought me that art set, we’d been watching Bob Ross, so of course everybody does a Bob Ross, don’t they? But it wasn’t oil; I did it with acrylic, and it was the most false colours. It was like the contrast and the colour had been ramped up … but I had a nice time. Then I did a leopard and I still have the leopard, because this leopard, where I started and where I finished, it actually reads like a clock to me. I can see my learning experience all the way round it, and I’ll always keep it. Besides the fact I could never sell it, because it was google images and I didn’t know any different, so there’s the copyright issue anyway. I think I had enjoyed the leopard so much, and I’ve always been an animal lover; I think that was it!  I just knew that was where I was going to go. There’s a bit of the half way hippie in me as well; you know humans are killing the planet. It took hundreds of years to get to this point; it’s going to take a bloody long time to let mother nature fix our mistakes as well. I think all of that comes into it. It’s all about local wildlife and numbers that are diminishing in our area, things really close to home. You see the African wildlife come out of me, because we visit South Africa, because Collin’s dad lives there, so we’re really lucky, because we’ve visited the bush a fair few times now. It’s just awesome. There’s nothing like it.  We all know what a lion looks like; we all know how big they are, but actually when you see one it’s…. “Ooooo.” It’s incredible. I’ve got no words for it. That’s always going to be there. There’s always going to be something I find to draw.

DH. Have you had the opportunity to shoot your source material yourself?

JR. Some, yeah.  Obviously our South African trips, our first few trips, I wish I’d had a big camera. I’ve got a lovely DSLR now that will come with us on future trips and before we go, I intend on getting a right, big zoom lens. 

DH. What are you shooting with?

JR. Canon…. It’s nice (laughter ensues).  I’ve checked at home, it’s a Canon 700D for those wondering.

DH. Just for the photography nerds, it’s fun to know what people are shooting with. It’s important that people understand that an iPhone can only get you so far

JR. Of course it can

DH. Such a profound difference between 10mp on an iPhone and 10mp on a Nikon.

JR.  Of course.  When I’m doing pet portraits, most people are shooting on their phone these days. Not everyone has even got a camera in their house anymore, because, to be fair, why would you? So I have to explain all the time, you know, certainly if your pet’s still around, turn your settings up as big as you can and if you haven’t got room on your phone, email them to me and I’ll keep them for you until we come across a few reference photos you’ve settled on and I’ll take it from there. Especially when it’s a memorial piece, you get some of these things through and I just think “Aw, I’m going to have to make up so much.”  This is where the anxiety comes in, when you’re doing commissions from a dreadful photo; you just desperately want to give somebody something so beautiful, that’s really representative of the animal that they’ve spent all those years with.  You know when people talk about ideal clients, or your customer base and things like that; my gang are people who aren’t just pet owners, whether they own a cat, or a horse, or a dog; my gang are the folks who think that they’re like another kid, the pet PARENTS, just like me… they take up so much of your life … that’s my gang. That’s why people come to me rather than someone else. 

Brian Harrison:  I think anyone who has a pet and the pet isn’t just a pet; it’s part of the family, as much as a son, or daughter and when by God if something happens to them you know. I’ve had it myself. I don’t understand how people don’t feel like that about animals.

JR. I don’t understand either, but the world is full of wonderful differences. I don’t understand it, but they’re obviously such a different character to me that I just don’t get it.  We had two Westies and we lost one at the beginning of lockdown, but to be honest it was to be expected; he was fifteen and he’d been ill since he was about eight, he just didn’t know it; he thought he was about six, so it was fine. We lost his little mate this March, and it killed us. The first one that went, he got called every swear word which you could possibly imagine, and bear in mind, I married a sailor and grew up in a pub, right? But he was mine. 

DH. Have you done any portraits of them?

JR. I managed to do Bob, the first one, but I can’t do Marley yet. Can’t do it.

DH. It’s difficult with portraiture and pet portraiture both, you get people commission really soon after an event, and you’re then sitting with the weight of that, while you’re working.

JR.  I can tell you a little tale, and I might cry, because I cried all the way through this portrait. I had a lovely message from this girl, “I need you to draw my Rosie”. She was a Romanian rescue dog. She was only two when she died. I had to draw her with a little hint of a beach behind her, because that was that dog’s story; she loved the beach. This post popped up from the lady on social media, saying “goodnight Rosie, I’m sorry I couldn’t fix you”.  (Little tearful, as promised) I was no good all the way through it. Because you totally feel it. See (wiping her eyes) soft as muck when it comes to animals. You totally feel it.

BH.  I did a portrait for my nephew after his wife died on their wedding day. I cried all the way through that. I would never change a thing, because it was such a way of letting go of all of the grief and I love what I did, but it was the most horrendous thing, because it was going through the grief stages as I was painting it. I couldn’t paint my dog. I couldn’t

JR. I’ll have to wait to paint Marley. I couldn’t handle it yet.

BH. I think that shows you as much as a person within your art, as much as anything else.

JR.  It’s other people’s dogs as well, and I do like … as much as it might upset me, it might do this to me; I think the emotion does transfer into what you’re doing.  I am kind of the opinion that you can teach anyone to draw competently; get your measurement and stuff ok and that’s a reasonable dog. I think some people are gifted and I think some people get overly emotional. When it all comes together in that one bit of paper, that one canvas, you can really see it, and I think that’s when it’s special. It’s what I TRY to do for everybody. I hope I do. That’s always it when I’m talking about somebody’s pet.

DH. I think they only time there’s a clash is when people see something different.

JR.  Certainly when I’m talking detached, as a commission artist, I think, surely, somebody’s looked at all my stuff and they already know what they’re going to get, so I don’t think there’s going to be any surprises when they get the end result, otherwise … well, you just wouldn’t give anybody money. You wouldn’t go up to someone in Tesco and say ‘will you draw my dog?’

DH.  With commissions, do you take part up front and part at the end?

JR. Yes, and to be honest if I hadn’t heard so many horror stories from other people, I would probably be the daftie that was trusting enough to say, ‘aye, of course I will’, then go and do it when nobody’s paying you. These things take such a long time, relatively …

DH. Your pieces are so high detailed; typically how long are you spending?

JR.  I think the smallest one I do is usually about an 8x8, so call it a square A4 to give people a good gauge of it.  It depends on what sort of materials I’m using, so if I’m looking at pastel and it’s not overly detailed; there’s no background, maybe a six to eight hour over a few sittings, otherwise you’d be too tired; you’d be doolally tap … to something four foot wide or something that I’ve spend forty hours doing.  It just depends how many’s in there as well.  

It’s a relatively short space of time I’ve been drawing, when you’re talking about art; some people have been working so hard at this for twenty years, and it might seem … she’s only been doing it for let’s say five years to keep it simple, but the amount of time that goes into five years is astonishing. When you’re talking about other artists and twenty years, they might have only been doing an hour after work; whereas, I’ve put blood, sweat and tears and long long days … whole days into doing all of this, and developing the way the business runs, because it is a business, not a hobby.  Let’s face it; it’s a bloody expensive hobby, especially when you’re talking about coloured pencils.  Have you seen the price of them these days?

DH.  What’s your favourite bit of kit?

JR.  Coloured pencils.  One hundred percent.  I love the control.  I love the detail.  I’ve worked really hard in finding ways to force them into doing different things and behaving in different ways and what mixes with them and what doesn’t.  The amount of time, and the amount of waste, and some of the paper I’ve fallen in love with isn’t cheap either.  I’ve just bought two pads A3+, only twelve sheets of each and it cost over £50, and I don’t think people realise that either.  They still expect Susie Cheapskate up the road, with their packet of graphite pencils they’ve bought from Boyes and a bit of cartridge paper, and they’re happy to pay £20.  And you know what?  That’s fine, because Susie up the road is getting boatloads of experience; she’s really enjoying herself, she’s doing her mental health the world of good.  But if you want a fine art piece, please be aware of how much time and how much money people have been putting into it to give that to you. It’s not cheap.

DH.  Speak to that difference in materials.  What’s the difference in working with cheap coloured pencils and cheap paper, vs working with…

JR.  Cheap paper, I couldn’t make the coloured pencils do what I want them to do.  Cheap coloured pencils I couldn’t make them work the way I do. T here’s certain things you can do; you can use wet methods with an oil based coloured pencil these days and you can make it almost look like an oil painting.  Let it dry and you can go back and add even more detail, because it depends on how much depth you want in that as well.  You can actually make a coloured pencil look as deep as an oil painting if you’ve got the time and skill to do it.

BH.  What’s your favourite brand? Do you mix and match?

JR.  As long as they play nicely together, I’m happy to mix.  I do have some Prismacolor, which are the cheapest option I’ve got, but even those, when I bought them were well over £100 and I’m sitting thinking “Oh my God, I’m spending this much on this…” and now I’m sitting there thinking, “Shall I get myself some Pablo’s for Christmas?  And will I have the wooden box?”  But that’s nearly £300 and that doesn’t seem extortionate any more.  

It depends on the reference photo I’m using.  If there’s some really sharp details, I don’t think you can go far past Faber Castell, the Polychromos, because they are so much harder; you can get a point on them, that’s like a little spear, and you can bring out so much when they’re that long and that sharp, as long as you’re careful. Caran D’Ache Luminence are beautiful pencils to work with, depending on the surface you’re drawing on, fabulous, but they’re a little softer than Polychromos, much more creamy; they’ve got much more muted tones in Luminance; whereas, the Polychromos can be much more vibrant.  I would imagine if, let’s say someone wanted to draw lots of flowers and things like that, I would absolutely send them to Polychromos, because the plant life, the colour’s so much more vibrant.  It depends on the mood of what you’re drawing.

DH.  Pretty animals, or ugly animals?

JR. A bit of both, because you know what? It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about animals, plant life, people; everybody and everything has got a redeeming feature. You might have to dig hard to find it, but it’s there.

BH.  Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.

JR. I  don’t like the word ugly; I prefer unconventional.

BH.  Is there any specific artist that you admire, or take after?

JR.  I try to … not ignore everything, but keep my blinkers on, because I think it’s very easy to get distracted about what other people are doing, especially when you’re a jobbing artist, when it’s not just a hobby.  I try to mind my own bloody business to be fair, and just get on with what I want to do.  Just after Collin had bought me the art set, I was like, all over YouTube, you know and I found a couple of artists on there, and I remember looking and thinking “wouldn’t it be lush to be as good as that?  That’s amazing that is.” And I drew … it was in pastel, and it was a Roan Cocker Spaniel and it was right at the very beginning of getting paid for jobs;  I hadn’t done very many;  I stood back and I started to cry.  Colin was like “What’s wrong?  Have you hurt yourself”.  I said “You know I’ve been watching such and such on YouTube and saying I want to be that good … that’s that good isn’t it?  I’m not just making it up?”  And he went “Aye, it is, pet; it’s really good.”  But then of course they move on, and so do you, so it’s not that I ever want to be the SAME as somebody else, but there’s certainly a lot of really excellent coloured pencil artists out there at the minute, to take inspiration from.  I think it’s at a point now, where people are being less snobby about Coloured Pencil, and realising the fact that the coloured pencil is an archival material and it does deserve to be used in fine art.  It’s been poo-pooed for so long, you know; even acrylics has been; unless you were a watercolorist, or an oil painter, people didn’t want to know.

DH.  I think acrylics were fighting the battle of, people didn’t know how archival it was going to be.

JR.  I think this (Coloured Pencil) has been the same thing, but there has been so much investment by the big name brands now, that they’re all … certainly if you’re asking people to pay for these originals, you need to be making sure that they’re light fast and they’ve been tested on the Blue Wool scale.  You need to know that you’re giving somebody a quality portrait, otherwise if you’re using coloured pencils from Tesco and charging people a fistful of money, that they’re going to hang up and it’s going to be pasty and pill-y in two years time; what do you want to do that for?

DH.  The degradation of materials is dire. 

JR.  God yeah.  Even the paper.  You need to make sure you’re using the right materials.  If you’re reading this article and you want some advice, drop me a message, because I don’t mind sharing. It’s not a secret.  If you want any advice, I will help.  I’d rather people were using the right materials, because otherwise it’s like trying to be a brick layer and using custard as cement; it just doesn’t work.

DH.  It’s difficult, where we are; there’s not that many great art supply stores around.

JR.  No, there isn’t, so, unfortunately, a lot of us will be supporting Amazon, because nobody knows where else to go. There are some really good, reasonably priced art stores independently run up and down the country, who will post you stuff out.  I think those are the people we should be supporting, because to be honest with you, they prices are just as keen as Amazon’s, if not better, as long as people know where to go.  Again, if people want recommendations, I don’t mind telling anybody. I do buy from Jacksons, ArtDiscount, Ken Bromley.

DH.  What’s your favourite animal?

JR.  I don’t think I could pick one. Nah. I really couldn’t.

BH.  Is there an animal that you haven’t done, which you’d like to do?

JR.  But I thought we were only here until about lunch time?

(Laughter)

JR.  I always keep a bit of time for doing dogs, all pets really, but I’ve always got a list of animals that I want to do.  It has always been about the African thing this year, and all of the titles have been Swahili translations and things like that.  What’s next on the list? There’s a big lion coming up, with a huge mane. There’s a … something baboon … the colourful ones.  (Checked at home agin!  It’s a Mandrill Baboon)

Elephants are always on the list, but because I’m so detail focused, those elephant projects tend to take a hell of a long time … really, really long time.  I know that after I’ve gotten over the spate of African elephants, I fancy doing something underwater, but I haven’t worked out how I’m going to get the reference photos I want, and actually what I want to draw and how I’m going to do it, given that I prefer coloured pencils, rather than loose stuff.  So my brain hasn’t quite worked that out yet, but it will.

DH.  Do you want to actually shoot underwater yourself?

JR.  Possibly.  It depends how well the photos would actually turn out. I’ll have to test in the bath with a rubber duck, because I’ve got one of the fake-ish Go-Pro with the water box.  I don’t know how I’d get what I want.

We chatted for a little while about workshops and online classes and various supplementary activities until Joanne got onto the subject of the administrative side of running a business.

DH.  Where do you draw? Where do you actually spend the time to create?

JR.  In, what was, the spare bedroom.  I think people have the impression that when I say I’m an artist, I get up on the morning, and I swan around in my nice feathery dressing gown, floating behind me, with the dogs behind me being ever so nice, not running around trying to knock me off my feet, or anything, have my nice cup of coffee, and then I go upstairs and I draw all day; I colour in.   Nah!   You know what it is … I’d love to get up on the morning, and not have to go and pick up dog shite from the yard.  I’d love to get up on the morning and swan around with my cup of coffee, and my hair’s all perfectly in place and all of that stuff, but I’m just the same as you.  I’ve got to go and clean up after the dog and I’ve got to go and give them their breakfast, and CAN I just go and colour in all day?  No!  There is never a day when I can just go and do what I want to do.  Homelife, like everyone else, and it just so happens that what I love to do, has created all of these other problems that I’ve got to find time for.  Like Admin…

BH.  So you’ve got a nine to five, plus…

JR.  Everything that everybody does, who work for themselves.

DH.  How much time do you spend on marketing?

JR.  I think marketing, all of it, it all comes together for me, so admin, whether that’s looking after websites, whether that’s speaking to suppliers, whether that’s talking to people on social media, or doing my accounts; whatever, I’d estimate it’s around 50:50 and possibly swings more towards the admin and technical side, rather than towards creating, which is the biggest shame in the world.

DH.  It is, but it’s necessary unless you want to pay someone to manage the business side of your business. Exhibiting, have you taken part in group shows?

JR.  When I was back at Fiona’s art group, I did a little show at St Cuthbert’s in Shotley Bridge.  It was the end of August, one year and that was the very first time anybody had seen anything in public; my friends and family had, but to stand there and say “I did that”, it’s really unnerving the first time you do it actually, isn’t it? It’s a bit weird. 

That was the first time.  Other than that, we only do things like County fairs, shows and stuff like that.  I had an Etsy shop once over and we did an Etsy Christmas event, and this was a bit pivotal for me.  We were setting up the store, and Collin’s always with me when there’s stuff to carry; I couldn’t do what I do if it wasn’t for Collin, I absolutely couldn’t.  I was standing in front of the stall and I said, “God, it looks like a jumble sale.  There is nothing about this that says ‘she’s the artist; she’s done that’” I said, “There could be someone’s walked past and they’re photographs I’ve just nicked off Google. You can’t tell.”   It was all full of cups and small things for people to buy, and it was like … actually they can get that on the website … we can tell them about that.  These things should be more about me and what I’m drawing, rather than ‘do you want to buy my mug with a leopard on it?’

DH.  I think that’s the important thing; people are buying your work, but people are buying you.
JR.  People will buy the person before they’ll buy the object, whatever it might be.

We discussed the Consett Heart space and the possibility of upcoming exhibitions and then fell into a general discussion of exhibiting in the North East.

JR.  I’ve got some of my stuff in Land of Oak and Iron.  They do “Meet The Maker” events.  When I went down, the lady who took the stuff, she was like ‘Ee I was so excited when I saw a picture of you with Chris Packham; he’s my hero’.  That happened, literally just a couple of years ago, when I did this event with Chis Packham, which is what sparked all of the interest in local wildlife and diminishing numbers.  That seems like forever ago; this art thing that I’ve done feels like it’s so much bigger and has gone on for so much longer, but really it’s not; it’s really small.  Every now and again, I have to give myself a good poke and say ‘you need to have a look at what you’ve done in such a short space of time’, and it’s one of the bits of advice I’d give to anybody when they’re learning things like this; go and have a look at something you did this time last year - you’ll be astonished at the difference.  I think we all need to.  It’s amazing how time can feel like it’s gone on … Like lockdown; it’s flown over, but it also feels like it’s gone on for eleventy-billion years as well.  It’s that weird thing, and me being an artist still sounds dead strange, instead of an office manager, or something like that.  It’s such a short space of time, and the difference is astonishing.

DH.  Five-ish years and hundreds of hours; do you know how many pieces you’ve actually produced?

JR.  Na.  I wouldn’t have a clue.  Ranging from titchy little A5 things, to A2-A1 things and if you’re doing something that big in coloured pencil, that’s a tremendous amount of work; it’s a long, long time. I would guess if you balanced them out and meeting in the middle, say one a fortnight, when you’re taking into consideration the big and the small, because the little ones might only take a couple of days, but the big ones can be hanging about for months.  I guess there’s probably an average there.

DH.  Have you ever looked at doing fantasy animals?

JR.  All the time.  All the time.  I really, really fancy dragons and I look at like snakes and the colours on their little scales and your mind starts going somewhere else, doesn’t it?  I would never say never to something like that.  I already have a market where I can put that, as well and again, it’s one of those things, where I was talking about the underwater thing; trying to make my mind process how to make what I like to work in, behave that way to do it.  It’s also trying to get my brain to stop wanting to follow the rules and just do that picture, putting lots of things together.  

At the beginning of lockdown, I had a bit of a hissy fit about being told I couldn’t go out and I started raking the house out, ‘I know there’s cross stitching in here somewhere.  I might not have seen it for twenty years, but they are here!’  I got them out, so ‘I’ll have a little cross-stitch, because … you know … I haven’t got enough to do, so I’ll have a little cross-stitch.’  I thought ‘ooh, my drawings would be lovely if they were turned into cross-stitches.’  So I did a couple myself, then realised actually, you’re giving yourself shitloads of work here, Joanne.  So there’s this company in America, called Heaven and Earth Designs and they produce cross-stitches on a massive scale; they do the Thomas Kinkade Disney, and stuff like that, and a lot of things.  They now chart my drawings, so I can see dragons and fantasy and fairies and stuff that would go down a storm with those ladies.  The downside is they take about four, or five years to stitch for most people. 

BH.  They are very time consuming, yeah.

DH.  There’s also that question of, how much do you want to put yourself in a position, where those are the only orders you’re getting.  Are you ready to not do any dogs for a year? 

JR.  Nope, always time for pet portraits!  Just scooting back to when I was saying that lockdown gave you time to evaluate things; it’s about the time you’re prepared to spend for each project per year, and before you get like ‘Ooh, look… another shiny thing … can I do this? ’ You have to sit and think, ‘can I fit that in?’ Because at the minute, I’m flat out until the end of February.  I could quite happily go home and pull out all the pinks and greens and all the rest of it and sit and draw a dragon’s tale, but I haven’t got time to do that.

DH.  Little box of greens … One baby Yoda would go a long way 

JR.  Just a little box of greens (laughter). But it’s the copyright thing.  People don’t get that they’re not supposed to be drawing Hippogryphs, or baby Yoda.  They give it the ‘Oh look, so and so does it, and her’s is on ETSY’.  So her’s is on ETSY… she couldn’t give a shit about losing her house?  What if they came after you?  Are you bothered about losing your house?  You’ve got to be so careful with copyright.  It’s not worth it.  Even picking something to draw and using google images… leopard; you can’t take that picture and draw it and then sell it.  If you’re just doing it as a hobby and you’re learning to draw, nobody’s going to know that you drew that leopard from Google Images, but if you then start to sell it, that’s a risk… that’s a big risk, because you are then subject to copyright law.  Even the likes of Pixabay; there’s all of these photographs that you can use, or you can have a commercial license if you want to print the photograph in its entirety, but how do you know Billy Blogs actually owned that photograph before he put it on Pixabay?  It’s a real difficult one that, and I would always touch base to cover yourself.  There’s a lot of local photographers who will happily let you use their work as a reference photograph, and all they ask is for you to tag their page.  And you know what?  That’s only bloody manners.  It is!

BH.  I first saw you through Land of Oak and Iron.  How did you get in touch with them, or did they contact?

JR.  I want to say that would be through DBN connections.  They are part of the … it used to be Derwentside Business Network, but now they just call it DO Business Network.  We used to meet up once a month and you would have a bacon sandwich and a coffee (Before Corona) and it’s just about getting to know other business people.  When you work alone, you can be in a houseful, but actually it’s a very lonely place to be.  When you’re sitting in an office full, you can already know the answer to a question, but you just want to vocalise it, to say ‘yes I did know that’ and get on. You can’t do that when you’re working by yourself, so I think it’s actually quite important to know other people who are in a similar situation to you.  They might do something completely different, but actually you’ll have the same issues, or you know … how does Google Meet work?  Who is going to know that?  Well actually, I know people who will know.  I don’t want to use Google Meet at the moment, but if I did, I know where to go and they are like my work colleagues, so that’s how Land of Oak and Iron came about. 

DH.  Who were you before this?  What were you doing in the interim between school Joanne and Artist Joanne?

JR.  After my A-Levels, I took a year off to save upon for a car, before going to do a psychology degree.  I went to work for Lloyds TSB.  I left eleven years later.  I didn’t go and do my psychology degree.  Then I did things like office management, project management and development for a company in Consett.  I’ll tell you what else I did as well, actually.  My sister was a hair dresser, and I thought, ooh, it’ll be lovely to have a business with my sister … I know; I’ll go and learn how to be a beauty therapist, right.  All I was really bothered about was nails, because I have psoriasis and it affects my nails some times, and I thought, I’ll be able to do my own and cover them up and me and our Lisa can have a lovely little business together.  I’m aware that you can get courses where they just go and show you how to do something, and you can get insurance and you can go and be.  But I like to know the far end of a fart, and I like to know the reasons why, so I would do the full NVQ.  It was just before I left Lloyds-TSB, so I condensed my full time working week, so I still worked full time, condensed a two year NVQ, plus a year’s NVQ into twelve months at college and did it all in the same year, and I honestly thought they were just going to teach me how to slap some wax on your ‘tache, right… and be able to rip it off… (much laughter)  But no! It’s like all of the underpinning knowledge. I really, really got into it, so I ended up actually having my own business doing that, then training… I was driving down to Manchester once a month and delivering training to a full class of Vietnamese.  I had one of the ladies there doing all of the translating for me and things like that.  I have done some really odd things, now that you ask.  But here we go. The drawing took over and I ended up closing that business, because this was too much of a love to pass up and it overtook everything else.  Sometimes you’ve just got to trust your gut and you’ve got to go for it.  This is what’s happening, let’s see where we go.

DH.  That tipping point, when you saw ‘I’m there’. How soon was it?

JR.  Less than twelve months.  There’s been more ‘tipping points’ since, because … I think and certainly with something like this, but actually across your whole life, you can’t in good conscience sit there and think you know everything.  It’s pretty bloody arrogant if you do.  You’re always learning.  You’re always moving forward.  You’re always doing things differently.  So, you know … I’ll be … there is something I do, every piece that I do;  I do leave it 24 hours before I pack it off, or frame it, or anything.  Even if I know I’m finished and I’m not going to pick up a pencil and faff with it, I sit and pick three things that I would change, or do different next time.  I do it every single time.

DH.  How much of your time do you spend working upside down?

JR.  Quite a bit.  Unless I’m filming it, and then I have to keep it static.  Weird moment, when I was watching some of my videos back, which is useful for people who are learning; you can see what you’re doing … when I was a very young kid, I was a little bit ambidextrous until it was knocked out of me … I noticed myself, certainly with pastel, not so much with my pencils, I draw left handed!  I don’t know I’m doing it!  I can stitch two handed, top and bottom, but my left hand has to be on the top, because I can not trust that sneaky little sucker underneath.

BH.  Cross stitch, I think you’ve got to be a little bit ambidextrous.

JR. I didn’t know I was still doing it.  I even remember the drawing. I was like ‘Colin, come and look at this!’ I couldn’t believe it.

DH.  How do you sketch up - how do you draft?

JR.  It depends on what I’m doing. Is it from one photograph, or multiples?  I like to use … it’s like a weird sort of drafting film; I like to draw on that, certainly if I’m free handing, or looking at something and drawing from life.  It’s almost like Vellum.  You can rub out on it and it’s sturdy enough not to destroy itself.  When I’m happy with what I’ve sketched out, I then transfer it with either graphite paper … you can’t use anything else, because you can’t get rid of it … then I put it onto whatever I’m drawing onto, because I want the least amount of marks possible on the drawing surface. Coloured pencils are not as forgiving as people think they are; when you start doing things to them, you can’t get them back to white paper.  When I’m doing something I need the lease amount of marks.

DH.  Grid? Lightbox? Measure?

JR.  I’ve got a Lightbox.  Colin bought it for me the Christmas before last.  It’s been on twice.  I just don’t get on with it.  It’s not my cup of tea.  Depends on the size of things.  I was asked to draw a Landrover and some rigging on a nice misty morning; I gridded that one, because I was unsure of the dimensions of it.  If it’s a landscape, I don’t even bother… I just go.  If it’s a person, I think you’ve got to be really, really careful.  If someone’s trying to pay you a couple of hundred quid to draw their kid, you better make damn sure it looks like that kid. 

DH.  It’s the fractions of a millimetre that make the difference with a face.

JR.  Yes, it is. So if that’s the case, absolutely either draw it out, or trace it.  There’s a lot of people get snobby with tracing, light boxes and stuff like that.  You could fill this room with a hundred different people starting with the same line drawing and every single one would end up different.  It’s just about getting the dimensions right.  You’re right, it IS about the fractions of millimetres. Less so with animals, but drawing humans makes me feel a lot more uncomfortable.  People will say, ‘well I want the dog done,’ and they’ve got a kid and they’ll say, ‘do you do human’s as well?’ I’ll say, well I can  … but I don’t like to.  What makes your kid your kid is the freckle they’ve got there… and if I can’t see it on the photo, it’s gone.  I find it too stressful.  I prefer the animals.

DH.  They’re more forgiving, but at the same time it’s more about the character.

JR.  Yes. That’s what you need to get when you’re doing animals.

BH.  If you ever do a wild boar, give me a shout. Old Fashioned English wild boar.

JR.  It’s all of this sort of thing that really excites me.  I’ve drawn the lynx and I’ve drawn the wolf, and these are things that ACTUALLY belong in our area.  They’ve been hunted and persecuted to extinction and in our country.  They’re really close to home to us, and it’s tragic.  Look at the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone Park.  It’s incredible.  They actually got more greenery.  They were expecting the wolves would eat all of the herbivores out, but it brought the balance back.

BH. People forget we had bears in this country. And Wild Boars. Wild Boars were an integral part of this country. 

JR.  It’s part of the reason we have to have deer culls.  They decimate the ground they’re on, because they have no natural predators any more.  They aren’t - twig snap and running away; they’re staying put and they are literally killing the ground that they’re on, because they’re staying there so long.  What should be happening is a little munch, munch and I’m off; that regenerates. It’s killing our grass lands. 

BH.  Same as introduction of mink back in the 1900s. They decimated a lot of our local species.  As well as the introduction of the grey squirrel. They are starting to realise there’s been interbreeding between red and grey.

JR.  I do think what’s quite sad, though … I mean when you want to see them (squirrels), it’s lovely that they’ll come up to see you, but it’s a bad thing.  They should be frightened of us, and keeping their distance and staying away.  The Pine Marten … I did one and I called it ‘endurance’, because it’s still just hanging on, literally, by its little claws, just in pocketed areas around the UK, because they have tried to kill it out so many times.  They’ve been called Nature’s cutest assassin, but they’re beautiful.

BH.  Beautiful mixed coloured furs.  Absolutely stunning animal.  We still have a few up at Northumberland and occasionally down at the Derwent.

JR.  I love them.  It’s one of the drawings I have took down to Land of Oak and Iron, but every time I take it anywhere, I get a little bit … ahhh.  I won’t be upset if that never sells; I really won’t, because I just love it.

BH.  Would you class yourself as a naturist who is an artist, or an artist who is into nature? 

JR.  I think I’m a little bit of both.  There is that element of the halfway hippie.  I’m not ready to have dreadlocks and sack clothing, you know; none of that, because let’s face it, we do live in an advanced world now.  We all want our electricity, our phones and all of these things, but there has to be a balance.  There’s got to be a better way.  We can not continue damaging nature the way we have for the last few hundred years.  Mother Nature’s really kicking back at us now.  There’s the likes of Corona - Go to your room - You’ve been Naughty.  You know, it’s happening.  There’s all sorts of things that are seriously impacting humans, and we did it.  People can’t see that, or they just think ‘I don’t care; it’s never going to happen in my lifetime’.  I was an infant school kid in the 70s.  There was Tupperware then.  Our generation didn’t invent plastic.  It was already here.  But it’s been accelerated by this throwaway society.  I remember some Tupperware my Nan had that was still kicking around when I was in my 30s.  That’s not single use plastic.  If you’ve got an invention, and let’s face it, plastic is all around us and it’s bloody useful, but it needs to be an item for long term use, that’s going to last for many years, that can be recycled, that can be made into things.  Look at the state of the music festivals from single use bottled water.  It’s just so wrong, and we’re doing it.  It’s not like when plastic was first invented and you kept the same bit of Tupperware and it lasted forty years.  Things like that, yes I’m really passionate about and I try not to have them in the house.  There are times if we’re going on a trip, going to a fair, or something, when I have to buy some water, but I’d rather buy a two litre bottle than six little ones, because that big bottle, I can refill, it can go in the back of the car, if we’re going somewhere with the dogs, I can fill that with water for the dogs.  It’s just an unnecessary thing that we’ve created in this society that we now live in, where both partners tend to work, there’s nobody staying at home, so everything needs to be fast and quick, so you’re actually spending more money to create that lifestyle.  I’m not saying that a stay at home parent, whichever person that might be, is the way to go, because it’s not.  It doesn’t work for everybody, but it does create a difference in the way we live now.

BH.  Do you ever do open air?

JR.  I have, but because landscapes aren’t really my thing and trying to make a jaguar sit still for eight hours, they get a bit pissed off with you after a while … So yes, I have and actually I really quite enjoyed it.  Before I knew it, it was two hours later, but I don’t think I’d do it again taking like something nice and big and a whole big box of pastels.  I could possibly see myself if we were out somewhere glamping … always glamping, never camping … With a little Chinese waterbrush and watercolour pencils, or something. 

DH.  If you could instantly know one other skill, what would it be?

JR.  I’m proper nosey, so something like forensics, or something like that, and I think being detailed driven … “there’s a difference in that fingerprint…”  I don’t know if I could photograph dead bodies though. 

DH. Have you ever been asked to draw a trophy kill?

JR.  I haven’t.  Nor would I. I  couldn’t.  I think it’s abhorrent.  It’s disgusting.  I know things used to happen way back in the day.  Some of the things that are being hunted now; there’s hardly any of them left in the world.  Give nature a chance to get them back, How many more species are we going to have to lose?  How much more imbalance are we going to have to bring, before humans think ‘shit … I shouldn’t have done that.’  When you see them floating around on social media and stuff, I just think … I can’t look at it.  It’s disgraceful.  On the other hand, I have actually watched a lion chomp down on the shoulder bone of a buffalo, with all of his pride standing around watching, waiting for their turn and that doesn’t turn my stomach, because that’s nature.

DH.  If you could have your work in any one place … a celebrity’s home, a gallery, a building; where’s one place you would love to see your work hanging?

JR.  Battersea Dogs Home.

That final answer was given without any hesitation.  It says so much about who Joanne is.  If you want to see more of Joanne’s work, please take the time to visit her website at https://www.joannerowlandart.co.uk


Featured Photography by Sarah-Louise Johnson - sarahjohnsonphotography.co.uk